Page 23
skeleton you could hang things on. Nevertheless, there was always anthropomorphism involved. I wanted to play with all those questions, but to avoid falling into them. Sometimes I succeeded, sometimes not. Sometimes I guess I'm showing off my confidence that I can do conventional animation if I want to. But a nicer way to think of it is to see the figurative and narrative elements in my films as establishing norms from which to depart.
MacDonald: Image by Images
is the earliest of your films where you use actual photographed images of reality. Your hand appears in that film, and part of a face.
Breer:
And the eyeglasses, right. At a flea market one time we walked by a blanket on which this old ladyshe must have been a widowwas selling what looked to be parts of her husband. She had his teeth and his glasses and other parts of him out on this blanket. I think that's where that idea came from. It was a way of having a human presence without it taking over.
MacDonald:
Why did you begin to use sound? The first four films were silent.
Breer:
Well, sound was too big a deal to think about in the first films. But once I saw my films in public, I began to think about it. I had my first one-person show of paintings in Brussels in 1955, right after I got married, at Gallery Aujourd'hui. Opening in Brussels instead of Paris was sort of like opening in New Haven instead of New York. The idea was that I was then going to open at Denise René Gallery, but we had a falling out. Anyhow, I took
Form Phases IV
to Brussels, and Jacques LeDoux (I didn't know him then) arranged a screening of it in the gallery. The public at the gallery seemed indifferent to my paintings, but they reacted to the film. It was the first time I heard laughter, and then applause! As a painter I'd never encountered that. Suddenly there was a tangible, collective reaction. Here was a new ingredient,
sound,
even though it was coming from the audience, and not the film. I had to deal with it.
MacDonald:
Do you feel comfortable with sound? For some filmmakersKubelka in
Our African Journey
[1966], Len Lye in his direct animationssound is central to the making of the film.
Breer:
For me the most exquisite parts of a film have to do with some kind of plastic event that's silent. Generally I think that sound is padding in a predominantly visual experience, and necessary at times and fine, cathartic. Sometimes I'll use some sound just to announce that there is a sound track, so don't be uneasy, you're not going to have to suffer in silence and be afraid to cough, or whatever. But then once I've established some sound, I'll go into long periods of silence (especially in those earlier films), because looking at the images in silence is very important